I am leasing a 4th level dressage horse. I have only ever ridden up to about level 1 semi- successfully, and while I had been schooled on Grand Prix and PSG horses in the past, I am finding that I feel like I am having more than a little trouble riding this amazing animal correctly.
I’ve only just started leasing him, been on him maybe 6 times. I do have lessons coming up, it’s taken a while to get me & my trainer on the same schedule, but I wanted others’ thoughts too.
So, he is a wonderful sweet horse, 17h tall, very animated movement, not high knee, just forward and powerful. He really fills in the bridle, but is not the least bit heavy on the forehand or anything. He is an incredibly well trained horse and the perfect horse to improve my riding with.
I have 2 bits that I can use to ride him in, one is some kind of lightweight snaffle with a single elevator loop. I’ve never seen a bit like this before, but it is pretty light weight and easy. The other is a kimberwicke. The horse used to work in a double bridle while he was showing, but now does not.
When I ride him in that snaffle, I feel like I’m everywhere, can’t collect him, because my legs are not useful enough to put him on the bit, I also feel like he hollows his back and holds his head too high in that snaffle, especially when I try to sit the trot. I just can’t seem to sit still at all to his beautiful trot. And I feel like I am just hanging on his mouth.
When I ride him in the kimberwicke, the ride is near perfect. The canter is not so forward, unless I ask, he’s more round through his neck & back, and everything feels a little more "combobulated". I can sit his trot pretty well using this bit, but not perfectly, and I barely have to move my hands or touch his mouth.
So maybe I am over thinking everything, but I just wanted others’ thoughts? The Grand Prix horse I used to ride I used a double bridle on, and I can’t help but feel this new horse needs one too, then again, maybe it’s my bad riding, because his owner rides him just fine in the snaffle.
Kimberwickes are not allowed in the dressage arena, and I do hope to show this horse and give me a little more experience in the dressage show ring.
I have been riding dressage for about 7 years.
Sounds like he has the power of my new dressage horse! People struggle to sit his trot sometimes.
Use the legal bit and don’t sit his trot at first. You’re having trouble with his large movements and he is hollowing his back because you aren’t as soft on him as his rider is. Yet to loosen everything and flow better with your horse. Post the trot, gently work the bit then sink down and sit a couple strides. Clear your throat and feel the muscles? Those have to hold, and it will feel like you are bouncing up.
If he starts coming up, post. If you fight to sit a hollow horse you slowly ruin the horse.
You’re lucky to get to lease a trained horse. I have to train mine, thought I’ve ridden some gp horses and have trained a piaffe… It is tough working up the levels sometimes, especially since I don’t have a trainer within a 500 mile radius lol
May 14th, 2010 at 4:44 am
a horse is going to know his cues and different riders. . .and what he can get away with with a different rider. You’re legs need work if you cannot use them correctly (as you have stated above), and if you wanted to feel better about your own riding start there.
if he moves better for you in a kimberwicke then use it for now until you can use your legs correctly and move with him in a snaffle. You might be over thinking alittle, but better to over think then to not think at all in this case.
good luck.
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May 14th, 2010 at 4:51 am
do some research on bits. there is a huge difference in a kimberwicke and a snaffle, and a double bridle for that matter.
a snaffle bit is normally a very elemantary bit, with very simple movement. that’s why you start training a green horse in one. it is a 2 dimensional bit, which creates lateral movement in the horse. so it is actually too simple for your horse. he gets frustrated because it doesnt have enough meaning for him. it would be like you trying understand a book about dressage that is written only in pictures. interesting for a kindergartner, but you need some more insight to be able to understand what is going on.
a kimberwicke is not my preference of bits. it creates a leverage feel, which is more advanced for your horse, but with no warning. you have to literally pull on the rein before the horse can react to the signal. if you have a longer shank, like on a double bridle, the horse has a moment to react, when you pick up the rein, (not when you actually pull on it.)
a double bridle is a wonderful thing. it allows so much communication and refining to your work. your horse understands even the minutest pressure in different areas of his mouth and his body.
i would recommend trying a pelham, with your snaffle rein and leverage rein. the leverage rein is for your collection, and the snaffle rein is for lateral work.
i find it extremely difficult to do a correct half pass in a bridle that doesn’t offer leverage. i just like that extra feel it gives me. and its very difficult to go from a double bridle to a simple snaffle, but sometimes its needed. itd be like learning fluent spanish in school, and then going back to learn its alphebet. if you speak fluently already, why do you need to know? well first of all, if you were an avid learner, dedicated to speaking the language (werid, i know) the alphebet basics would only increase your appreciation on how the language is built.
so, sometimes learning the basic’s with a snaffle, we learn to understand the building blocks of how the horse works.
remember that the key to any movement in any discipline is that you ride leg to hand, or hindquarters to mouth.
and very importantly: its the training that makes the bit, not the bit that makes the training!
enjoy my book.
i recommend that you do an intense study of using your legs correctly. its fairly easy, and logical once you get the hang of it.
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May 14th, 2010 at 5:25 am
I’d persevere for a little longer with the snaffle, if that’s what he’s usually ridden in. Do you know if the previous owner rode him more in the snaffle or the kimberwicke?
If you really feel like the snaffle isn’t doing either of you any good, then you could try the double bridle, if you are used to using one and know what you’re doing, which it sounds like you obviously do! Do you know anyone you could borrow one off, just to try for a session? He was obviously used to one when he was competed, and even if he really doesn’t like it there’s no harm in trying him in it for 20 mins or so in the school.
Alternatively, ride him in the kimberwicke you and he feel comfortable in, and wait until your new trainer can see you ride him. Then you can show her you riding him in the snaffle and in the kimberwicke, and possibly in a double bridle, and she or he could possibly give you tips on how to collect him more easily in the snaffle or even suggest a slightly different snaffle that might suit him.
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May 14th, 2010 at 5:41 am
Sounds like he has the power of my new dressage horse! People struggle to sit his trot sometimes.
Use the legal bit and don’t sit his trot at first. You’re having trouble with his large movements and he is hollowing his back because you aren’t as soft on him as his rider is. Yet to loosen everything and flow better with your horse. Post the trot, gently work the bit then sink down and sit a couple strides. Clear your throat and feel the muscles? Those have to hold, and it will feel like you are bouncing up.
If he starts coming up, post. If you fight to sit a hollow horse you slowly ruin the horse.
You’re lucky to get to lease a trained horse. I have to train mine, thought I’ve ridden some gp horses and have trained a piaffe… It is tough working up the levels sometimes, especially since I don’t have a trainer within a 500 mile radius lol
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May 14th, 2010 at 6:17 am
The thing about riding upper level horses is that they are so well schooled that they do exactly as you ask, even if it’s not what you actually wanted. This guy is really going to challenge you to grow as a rider. What a great opportunity. As I read your comments, I think that all your concerns are simply going to get better with time. You will learn to site his trot. My dressage instructor tells me that if you are having trouble sitting the trot, one of three things is wrong – not round enough, not forward enough, or not bent enough. Your legs will get stronger and more independent. You will learn how to put him on the bit. It will all come with time and lessons.
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May 14th, 2010 at 6:25 am
All leverage is doing is backing your horse off the bit more to give the false impression that he is correctly on the bit. If you can’t get him forward and reaching for the snaffle before bringing him onto the bit, then you don’t have enough impulsion and he isn’t going to be properly elevating his spine to become rounded. I would keep him in the snaffle and work on your seat and legs until you are able to bring him onto the bit with forward energy that you collect in the bit. You don’t want him backing off of leverage to gain your seat and when his energy isn’t fully forward so his back can elevate as you bring him onto the bit. You should always be able to bring your horse onto the snaffle bit, no matter what level you compete at.
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57 years with horses and 4 years work with USDF olympic trainer/judge.
May 14th, 2010 at 6:54 am
Do not ride him yet. Waite until your instructor is there . You could ruin the training the horse has and destroy your hopes. I know it is hard but it will be worth it to learn properly and not spoil the horse
Dressage is the hardest Discipline to learn in the horse world and it is one that takes a lot of dedication and attention to detail It is better to learn something the right way than to have to go back and unlearn it and relearn something else. It is the same for the horse.
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May 14th, 2010 at 7:04 am
the way it sounds, you are out of shape, and for now this might be a little too much horse…. u might need lessons, and some time getting back in to shape. and also just need to figure this horse out.
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my dad has ridden the top dressage horses in north America, and my mom is an FEI trainer. My mom was a NPC examiner for many years.